abortion debate- has anyone heard of her??

[sharlit]

Originally posted by StarTrekCaptain:

But I'm just saying it reminds me of a Hitler thing to say "hmm, is this person's life worthwhile? they won't be physically perfect, so no! lets just kill them".

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">No, that is not the reasoning I was following. I think if someone's life is going to be unpleasant and pretty miserable they should be killed. Most people aren't physically perfect. But extreme cases are not pleasant to live with.

Trekkie, you're the one who had to go to the hospital a lot for those colon problems, right?

[The Handmaid]

Originally posted by StarTrekCaptain:


As for "please don't judge other people's situations" well I am not judging the people themselves but yes I guess I am judging their decisions because in my opinion in ANY situation it is very, very wrong to take the life of a baby that way. You just can't condone that....Roe v wade just sickens me...its like "okay goody now we have the right to deicde who lives and who dies"..

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">But by overturning Roe v. Wade, aren't you in essence deciding who lives or dies? You're deciding the fetus gets to live, the mother does not. Being pro-choice isn't being pro-death. It means valuing the health of the mother and her choices. It means recognizing the value of her life and her body.

[sharlit]

Originally posted by The Handmaid:
But by overturning Roe v. Wade, aren't you in essence deciding who lives or dies? You're deciding the fetus gets to live, the mother does not.

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">That's an interesting point I never really thought of before. What's the difference between proclaiming, "everyone lives," or "everyone dies"? The proclaimer is still making the choice.

What about instances where abortion saves the mother? If she is not allowed to have an abortion, then isn't that choosing the baby's life over the mother's?

[Sanguinarius]

Originally posted by The Handmaid:
But by overturning Roe v. Wade, aren't you in essence deciding who lives or dies? You're deciding the fetus gets to live, the mother does not. Being pro-choice isn't being pro-death. It means valuing the health of the mother and her choices. It means recognizing the value of her life and her body.

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Amen! I am not into abortion beyond the first trimester. I think a woan must have the right to choose. I am "pro-Choice" but not Pro-Death. I think that was a great way of putting it!

[StarTrekCaptain]

Children ought to be protected first. Besides, as someone posted earlier (sorry but I can't remember who- it was the one who knew a lot of midwife stuff?) anyways as she said, abortion is an unnatural, labratory like thing, wheras having a baby is something we were naturally designed to do. Of course it's not always safe but from everything I have read, abortion is far more dangerous.


Yes, I am the one who has problems with my colon. I am always having medical problems.

But so do lots of people.
And I feel my life is worth something. I am glad my mom didn't think, "she'll be too much trouble" and "it will be unpleasant to have to deal with all those medical problems, so she'd be better off dead"...boy I am glad I have the parents I have!
It makes me sad to think that some parents don't love their kids enough to keep them and love them nomatter what.

<font color="#a62a2a" size="1">[ December 17, 2005 04:36 PM: Message edited by: StarTrekCaptain ]</font>

[The Handmaid]

I don't think anyone is talking about aborting a fetus with problems like colon malfunction.

I met a couple through a pro-choice organization who had lost a child. They had an abortion because their baby was growing with no skull or skin on its head. The baby's brain was just... there. It had no covering. Obviously, the child would not survive. However, the condition wasn't discovered until the late second trimester. They terminated their pregnancy because the baby would never, ever make it. It didn't even have a face or a mouth, just a brain growing with no covering.

The mother would have been very harmed if she'd had to keep carrying the baby. The baby was growing inside of her, but it was obvious it could not survive on its own AT ALL.

Adoption is a wonderful thing. However, not all children get adopted. I think before we can think about banning abortion, we need to make sure kids are protected- like laws giving all kids health insurance and making sure all parents have homes for their children.

No one wants babies to die, but they shouldn't have to suffer either.

[monimarine]

Abortion became legal the year I was born. My mother was 17 and not even a high school graduate. She had dreams. She was not financially ready to care for a child. She had the choice to abort me, or grant me life, and she did. Her life has not been rosy and shiny. She struggled. But I am alive! I have accomplished many things, college, the military, my own daughter! Things I am so glad I did not miss out on!

When I was 12 my mother had my sister prematurely. She was 3 pounds, as she had stopped growing in the womb. In order to save her and my mother, they had to do early delivery. My sister had Cornelia De Lange Syndrome. She never spoke a word, never was potty trained, never dressed herself, and had her share of health problems like acid reflux-bad. The doctors told my mother to put her in an institution because she would never walk, that basically she would be a vegetable. Kids with Cornelia De Lange have a life span of 21 years. My sister lived for 18. In that time, she learned to walk, feed herself, communicate her wants, she went to school, she participated in the Special Olympics. She had this laugh that was the greatest sound, even better than words. She could throw a ball like a baseball player. She had favorite foods, and temper tantrums. God had a purpose for her life and by the way people spoke at her funeral, I would say she fulfilled it to His expectations.

When she died, my mother was so scared that she didn't give Amy the right kind of life, or the best life or she was worried about the quality of that life. All I could say to her was that she needed to remember that she gave Amy the chance to experience life and didn't abort her or put her in an institution because the doctors told her life would be rough.

I know exactly what you mean Teri.

[sharlit]

Well, you are giving me some hope that it's different when it's your child than when it's your parent. But I still mostly think I'd rather be dead than deal with it again.

I think it's interesting that people tend to have two reactions to strife. They either embrace God or accept the reality that life can really **** . I think it depends on how analytical a person's thinking is, but I could be wrong on that.

[StarTrekCaptain]

Monimarine your story and your sister's is beautiful [img]smile.gif[/img] [img]graemlins/rose.gif[/img]

SarahS I think its kinda sad that you'd rather die. As bad as things can get, if you have God then everything will work out for the best. And anyway, I think your life would be valuable nomatter how healthy you are, Sarah. Everyone contributes...even people who cannot speak or move, etc. they can impact others which in turn can end up changing big things.

[rachie421]

As touching as monimarines expierence is, I dont really think its in the same league as the fetus that was essentially growing with just a brain. I dont think that some mental or physical defects warrant an abortion. But something that is that extreme is an exceptional situation I believe. And because I do not consider a fetus a child, I do not place that supposed 'life' before the mother's who everyone will agree actually is a real live person.

And I also truly believe that there are some fates worse than death. Sarahs, Im not really sure what you were talking about when you said you would rather be dead, but I do know that I believe in the right to die if a person is suffering. Just another thought to throw out there [img]biggrin.gif[/img]